Children's Worship and the New City Catechism
Katy and Aaron talk about preaching in Children's Worship and our new series on the Catechism.
This transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Aaron Lee:
Hi, everyone, this is Aaron. And today I am here with Auntie Katy. Auntie Katy, thanks for coming on. I want to talk to you about Children's Worship.
Katy Lee:
One of my favorite topics.
Aaron Lee:
This has been on my heart recently. As you know, I've been preaching and teaching there along with you, and Auntie Alice. And so I kind of wanted to hear your thoughts on my preaching.
Katy Lee:
So we're gonna get really personal here.
Aaron Lee:
I've asked you for feedback before. Teaching children is very different than teaching youth. Definitely different than teaching adults. The way I approach it, is that I write it. And then, in my head, I'm learning it for myself, I'm like processing the message for myself, and then I have to morph it for the kids. Is that your process, too? Or do you automatically just turn the text in for children automatically?
Katy Lee:
Actually, Aaron, I really appreciate your approach with that, because most people don't understand that. They think, “Oh, a children's message is easy. It’s simple. So I don't hardly have to study because I know all the stories that the Bible and I can just speak to the kids.” And I know… and that's really not… it doesn't come out to be a good message. Or they think that I just throw in a couple of interesting stories about the life of a missionary or something. And that would really grab the interests of the kids. But no, we're preaching the Word of God. So definitely, that's the way, exactly the way I approach it, too. I study the passage for myself, I have to have understand, I mean, I have notes that are several pages of that, that I've done, I filtered down to just a little bit for the kids. Yeah, but I thought with just a little bit, I start with everything so that I personally am enriched by the Word of God as an adult. And I think through how to filter, what are some of these concepts from this passage that are important, the main themes and important things that are speaking out from the Word of God? And then what applies to the kids that can be then translated to them in the language that they can understand?
Aaron Lee:
Yeah, I'm the same. So normally, on my paper, or on my document, there's always more than what we end up presenting to the children. And there's a lot that actually does need to get filtered out to have a coherent or cohesive message. I've enjoyed preaching to the children. You mentioned that you actually take your time to learn the message or to get the message for yourself. Do you find that God speaks to you while you're preparing the message for the children? What I'm asking you is: Does God talk to you as well, during the preparation process?
Katy Lee:
They say that the best way to learn something is to have to teach it. And so definitely, that's a big learning part of my… a big part of my devotional life is to prepare the message. And I thought, what some people say, well prepared to teach a lesson. It's not supposed to be a devotion, but because I have, I feel like I have to have integrity when I teach the Word of God to the children. Sure, they might not know whether or not I say something theologically right, or whatever, maybe nobody would hear it. And they don't know. But I know before God, so I definitely want to have that personal relationship with God first, to apply the Word of God. Many times I'm convicted, and some of the things like Aaron you did last week. You know, how many persons in the Trinity...
Aaron Lee:
A hard lesson by the way. I forget if I chose that, or you gave it to me.
Katy Lee:
Well, I'm glad I didn't have to do it! I can just easily say God is three in one and it's like an egg and you know, all these other illustrations that probably are not really accurately describing it. So people could go to some of these children… from I mean, I looked at samples of children's sermons that you can buy, on curriculum, and they come up with stuff like this. I can't use that. That's why I don't like us to use purchased curriculum, because they would come up with something like that. You really have to understand the Trinity. I really liked your message last week. I haven't finished listening to it yet. But you know, I read your manuscript, and to really describe the roles of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit. That's the way you have to really study it and know it for yourself and then filter it down to maybe two points. You get five points for yourself. And maybe when you preach it to an adult audience, you will get three points. But for kids, two points.
Aaron Lee:
Being precise, concise, and clear is really the key… one of the big things that I aim for. For the children, and especially with that one on the Trinity – I didn't want to say anything heretical, blasphemous, and get everybody off on the wrong foot. So I'll go back and review that one a couple more times, just to make sure we're in the clear.
Katy Lee:
While we’re currently speaking of being heretical, you know, we started recording because of COVID. Before there's no accountability, in that sense. But I really appreciate being recorded. Because it… there's that level of accountability. And if I say something wrong, I hope somebody listens to it, our recording. Tell me, you know, that, that you didn't… that was taken out of context, or whatever, you know. I hope somebody would tell me that, because we're not beyond making mistakes with the Word. I like that. And I don't want to continue that kind of teaching. I want to be held accountable.
Aaron Lee:
Yeah, definitely. And I do hope that the parents or you know, anybody, is also checking out our messages. And just seeing this side of our church, this aspect of our church, this part of our church – this really important part of our church – the children's ministry. And that reminds me since since we're talking, I do want to say thanks to all the children's worship leaders that have helped out, over the years, especially this particular moment, when we were coming back. This kind of weird post-COVID time even though we're not really post-COVID. But you know, this kind of immediate aftermath of… from online and then shifting to in-person again. I just want to say thanks to all the worship leaders and all the adult counselors that are there to help with the children.
Katy Lee:
Yes, I want to agree with that, Aaron, I'm really thankful for all the ones who serve in Sunday school, and in the student department because they… we all have dealt with some anxiety and you know, all that during COVID. And yet they're willing to come back to serve, and to put themselves out there. And to be able to provide that spiritual modeling and feeding for the children.
Aaron Lee:
Yeah. So back onto the preaching. We've been going through the Catechism. Now, this is like a certain curriculum… it’s actually called the New City Catechism, I guess, for kids. And so I wanted to ask you: What what made you decide to go through this teaching series?
Katy Lee:
So the New City Catechism kind of breaks it, boils down the Catechism into 52. So it covers a year's curriculum instead of the 100, whatever, whatever versions of different versions of the catechism. I chose this because there's some very basic theology that I think we, the children, think they understand. Like, the Trinity, like I said, you say that the kids, how many, the church kids, how many? I mean, how many persons are there in God? And they'll say, oh, three, and they will know the answer. But I want the Catechism to really challenge them to think a little deeper. In our world today, they will be challenged. There will be people… of course, they're gonna see friends at school, relatives, cousins — who are not believers, who don't go to church. And I want them to have a solid foundation of what they believe. And in some ways, why they believe it. I don't expect them to be able to explain, you know, whatever to their friends. But I want them to have confidence in what they believe in, and who they believe in. All the nuances of the Christian faith. Not just oh, Jesus died for me, I'm a sinner. I know, I know. And I need to believe in Jesus and I come to church, I read my Bible, and I pray. Maybe most of the kids I would say in our children's department are very well versed in the Bible. Especially by the time they… I mean, in fact, I was just talking to a mom who moved out of state and her children are attending church. And one of the other… when someone she met at her new church from out of state said to her, “All your children know so much about the Bible. You must really teach them well at home.” And she said, “Oh, no, it's not for me. It's from my church. They know everything about the Bible, because we have a really good teaching children's ministry, they learn from the Sunday school teachers.” So again, I want to give thanks to all the servants. Yeah, we teach them well, we do teach them well. And I don't want the children to think “I know this. I know that I know all that.” But the Catechism shows them exactly, in a more systematic way, what they believe. And not just a piece here or a piece there, but very systematically, we start with God, and God's laws. And go on from there.
Aaron Lee:
Yeah, yeah. I like the Catechism because it's in a Q&A format. And I don't know, my brain just likes that sort of thing. I'll put some links in our episode description – there's some good resources online, so parents can check out what exactly is the catechism and what we're teaching. Actually, I did want to talk to parents just really quickly. The more I've been preaching to the children, it's kind of funny… I don't actually, I've been… I do see the importance of preaching. But even more, I do see the importance of parents and the instructions to raise up your children in the way they should go and to teach them the Word of God. And so I just want to encourage any parents who are listening, to keep raising up your children in the Word of God, and to talk to them about God, to lead them in prayer. Use whatever books or devotions that you can. It's so important, and I'm happy to be able to be a small part of discipling your children.
Katy Lee:
Yeah, thanks for bringing up the parents, Aaron. Definitely, we only have a few hours a week with the children. And yet the parents have them, of course, 24/7 almost. I would encourage the parents, go ahead and listen to our sermons. Which is kind of humbling. Because, you know, you're gonna say, Well, I don't want I don't want adults listening because they’re going to be more critical than kids. But I would like parents to listen to it with your children, and talk about it and see what we're teaching. And that would be great. You know, we are now recording it, since we didn't do that before for COVID. Because we still do have some children, families who are listening to it, and they've told me that they are watching it. So I continue to have it recorded, mostly for them. But then I say, Oh, actually, God, may be using that as an opportunity for the parents now who do come to our church and the kids out there live, but now then to listen to it, know what they're learning. Instead of you know, when you pick up your kids, you actually say, oh, did you have fun today? Now you can actually listen to it, maybe even on the way home from church. I don't know, maybe it's too much sermon for Sunday. Maybe when you're, you know, our sermons are usually what, Aaron… I try to… we kind of keep it within 15-20 minutes. So it's not too painful. Parents will listen to it with them and say, Oh, that's Uncle Aaron. Or that’s Auntie Katy talking. Let's see what they're talking about and discuss those points. Now, in the Catechism, the idea of the Catechism is that you memorize it, so that you are familiar with the basic theology of the Bible. But we're not making the kids memorize it. But if you could do that at home and memorize one a week, that's how we do it, one a week. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah.
Aaron Lee:
Parents, you are doing God's work. And it's hard. But you know, as a parent, myself, and Auntie Katie, you too, yeah, this is what life is. Training your children, discipling them, raising them up in the Lord. And so we're happy to help by, I guess, providing what we can.
Katy Lee:
And I'm happy that the parents make it consistently to church. I know. It's hard to get up and out the doors. But yes, we have the very young ones. Yeah, but it's worth the effort. And you're making that a priority. And that's great.
Aaron Lee:
Yeah. And there is never any guilt or shame if you're running late. I'm just gonna say that from the get go. Because sometimes, I know what it's like, where you're running late, and you're like, Oh, I'm 10 minutes late. I'm 15 minutes late, whatever. And I'm coming to the parking lot and I feel so guilty. But you know what, it doesn't matter. It's hard just to get up and out of bed, and bring the kids to church. So good job for doing that, and keep it up.
Katy Lee:
We always say to the kids, I'm so glad you're here today.
Aaron Lee:
And we are. We're very happy. Thanks Auntie Katy for making the time to take this short call.
Katy Lee:
Sure, anytime.
